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Allison Tunis (she/they) is a visual artist living and working as a settler on Treaty 6 territory, in Amiswaciwâskahikan (Edmonton). She holds a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree from the University of Alberta (2008) and a graduate diploma in Art Therapy from the Vancouver Art Therapy Institute (2013). Through their work, Allison seeks to explore themes of personal and community healing through the art process and look to challenge norms and expectations around marginalized bodies – with a specific focus on queer, fat, neurodiverse, and disabled experiences. As well, they aim to reimagine art materials, techniques and collaborative processes in ways that reduce barriers and harm, while contributing to critical conversations within and beyond traditional art spaces about accessibility, intersectionality, social justice, and strengths-based theory. Allison is a recipient of the Edmonton Artist  Trust Fund award (2018) and Alberta Craft Council Early Achievement award (2018), and was the artist-in-residence for Harcourt House Artist-Run Centre in 2019.

Zoë Schneider (she/her) is based in Regina, Treaty 4 Territory, Saskatchewan, Canada. Schneider works in sculpture, video, and installation to critically examine the complexity of fat identity. Schneider holds an MFA from the University of Saskatchewan (2018), and a BFA from the Alberta University of the Arts (2009). In Canada Schneider has exhibited in Regina, Saskatoon, Estevan, Guelph, Mississauga, Lethbridge, and internationally in Denmark, Germany, and the United States.

Hannah Quimper-Swiderski (she/they) is a visual artist, curator, and Digital Program Manager at Latitude 53. They currently live and work in Edmonton-Amiswaciwâskahikan.

Transcript

Hannah: Hi, everybody again. My name is Hannah. I am Digital Program Coordinator at Latitude 53.

Today's studio visit is a part of Art From Here, which is a project that highlights an artist and what they're thinking about - or not thinking about - as time passes. So, this is a project that we have been working on since spring of 2020, in partnership with the Mitchell Art Gallery, Ociciwan, and SNAP. 

We acknowledge that we're on Treaty Six territory, the ancestral and traditional territory of the Cree, Dene, Blackfoot, Salteaux, Nakota Sioux, as well as the Métis. We acknowledge that the many First Nations, Metis, and Inuit peoples whose footsteps have marked these lands for generations. Our recognition of this land is an act of reconciliation and an expression of our gratitude for those whose territory we reside on or are visiting - visiting in a virtual form, tonight.

So this month, we're featuring Allison Tunis in conversation with Zoë Schneider. So I'll give you a quick, little brief intros for both of them.

So, Allison is a visual artist living and working as a settler on Treaty Six Territory in Edmonton. She holds a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree from the University of Alberta and a graduate diploma in Art Therapy from the Vancouver Art Therapy Institute. Through their work, Allison seeks to explore themes of personal and community healing through the art process, and looks to challenge norms and expectations around marginalized bodies.

And Zoë Schneider is based in Regina on Treaty Four territory in Saskatchewan. Schneider works in sculpture, video, and installation to critically examine the complexity of fat identity. Schneider holds an MFA from the University of Saskatchewan and a BFA from the Alberta University of the Arts.

So now I'm going to pass things over to, I think, Zoë to get things started. And yeah, like I mentioned, if you have any questions, feel free to ask them whenever. 

Zoë: Awesome. Thank you so much, Hannah. And I want to thank everyone for having me here today, and also thank Allison for trusting me to write the response that I did for this project, and then also to talk with you tonight. I'm really excited about it. 

Allison and I discussed this in advance, but we really want collaborators that are a part of this project and here tonight to feel free to jump in and add your two cents to any of the questions that we are talking about. I think so much of this project is really about collaboration, that’s like the fundamental crux of it. So let’s- Yeah, we're really open to everybody talking and contributing and feeling a part of the conversation.

So, we were thinking probably the first, best way to start would be for Allison to kind of walk us through this project, talk about what the process was like, where the idea came from, just to give context for those who necessarily- don't necessarily know exactly what the background is. So Allison, do you want to go ahead and give us that?

Allison: Sure. 

So - I am unmuted, great. Just checked that. 

I'll do a little spiel about where this came from, and then I'll introduce my two collaborators who are here tonight with me as well. So I'd like them to be able to, to give a shout out about this process as well.

So this series has been in creation - mostly visualization - for a couple of years now. So I had started talking about it in about 2018 when I was doing some other work. And I started stitching as a 14 year old - cross-stitching to do a craft for my home ec class - and it just caught. Like it fit every neurodiverse need that I have: to sort of work with my hands, and really hyper focus on detail, and repetitive things and all of that. 

And so I worked with it over the years, and as I looked at the portraits, the backsides of them were always so exciting and interesting. And in art school when I started using cross stitch, people would be like, “This side is so much more interesting than the other side.” And I was like, "I know, so what do I do?" And eventually, I started drawing the comparisons between my own experiences - especially with mental illness and chronic illness - about how chaotic and how intricate and complex the backs of these pieces were in comparison to this sort of seemingly beautiful and like perfect fronts, and how that could be a metaphor for what my experiences with mental health and chronic illness had been. And I decided to do this project where I wanted to talk to other people about what their experiences were. So, yeah, I'm really excited to do this.

The process has been really, really long and really, really slow, which I felt guilty about the whole time. And I am starting to come to the place where I'm like, "No, this is, this is how it has to be." Again like, I could never have guessed that there was going to be a pandemic. My partner was out of work and I had to be holding our household together. And like all of those things impacted my ability to work, to work on this project, to function in daily life, and impacted the severity of my chronic illnesses to a point where I really needed to start reimagining the way that I was doing things in my everyday life. And from the feedback I've gained as an artist over the past few years and my own process, I also need to reconsider some other things about other people in the ways I work.

And so I really wanted to harness all of that in this project and sort of build… use it as a vessel - I sound so fancy and artsy - to sort of question and figure out how we can reimagine our processes to be more compassionate to ourselves and to other people. So, it really became- it grew from being a real like, Final Art Project, “this is what it's going to look like,” Art Proposal, to like this whole very cerebral, very conceptual, process driven project. So I think that's really cool and I'm just trying to be adaptive and open as we go along.

So I'm going to toss it over to my two collaborators here, so I'd like to introduce them and let them introduce themselves a little bit. So Clorinda and Madi are both here as collaborators. Whoever would like to speak first, please go ahead. Give yourself a little introduction if you'd like and don't feel pressured. If you just want to be like, “Hey, sorry, that's it, bye,” that's cool too. 

Clorinda: I’ll go, yeah. 

So my name is Clorinda and I just recently moved to Edmonton, actually, in September. I had lived here before - five years, was here for like 20 years - so it's not a totally new experience, I love being back. 

This process… I don't want to say that I'm glad to be bringing awareness because it's more about myself, I think, than anything right now. Living with chronic illness and being in a society and from a family where, “we're strong,” right? And I worked through being sick for so many days until I ended up in the hospital and then, you know, on many, many trips to the E.R. And then once I got validated by the doctors, how sick I actually was, was when I could finally take a breath. And I thought, “How ridiculous is that?” You know, to have to wait for somebody else to tell me how sick I am, even though I knew how I was feeling.

So all these things that were happening to me medically, you know, came at the same time where I just happened to stumble across Allison's call for collaborators that she had, and I thought, "This all is happening for a reason, right?" And I thought, you know, from that moment forward, I've been able to start redefining what it means to me to have chronic illness, and to set aside this shame, and to allow myself those days where I just can't. Because I've got multiple, and Allison and I were talking about it and I’m giving her the list, and I'm trying to think, like,  “Do I - Did I miss anything?” you know? So there's a lot going on there, right?

So you know, even just today, like doing all day Zoom meetings, there's times I have to get up and leave, you know, leave from the screen. And I was worrying this morning, you know, these other professionals like- Are they viewing me as unprofessional because I'm getting up and maybe I don't want to have to ask permission? And all these things go through my mind, and people don't necessarily think about that, right? 

So I think that it's definitely a journey, and this is a part of it. And Allison's work is beautiful. And you know- and I know she's going to create me in a beautiful way. And the way that she's going to represent on the back side of the portrait, you know, some of the things I'm going through physically is going to be the coolest part, and I'm just really excited.

Zoë: Thank you, Clorinda. Madi, did you want to jump in? No pressure, if not. Oh, I think you're muted right now. There you go. 

Madi: Yes, I'd like to jump in. Allison, I'm wondering, what points would you like me to touch on? Like a framework?

Zoë: Oh, Allison, I think you're muted. 

Allison: I'm the one muted this time.  

You can just talk about why you wanted to be a part of this project. So Madi, for context, just joined this project and we are just getting started, and I'm really excited about it. So you can tell- again, whatever you feel is important. 

Madi: Okay, sweet! 

So mental health has been, like, always important to me. I used to chair the mental- the Health and Wellness Committee for the City of Edmonton Youth Council for two years. So on that committee, I led a mental health walk, and we did other things like research reports for sugar intake and stuff like that. 

So, after working on the council, I got sick and I was in hospital for about four months, and then out and in hospitals for about four years. During that time, I was diagnosed with thirteen illnesses. And I guess like, I guess like, it's about- sorry, when I get nervous, my words get jumbled. 

Zoë: No pressure. 

Madi: I guess it's- like for me, it's like reframing how we view mental illness. I was diagnosed with schizophrenia. So when I got that diagnosis, I was reading research reports about- statistics about people who have schizophrenia, and then people who have schizophrenia are statistically more likely to be homeless, and just all these different outcomes. And I think diagnosis or like the DSM-5, has really, like, made me feel trapped. And that like- We have medical professionals kind of telling us how we experience- or like, a framework of like, how we operate. So like, I would read the DSM-5 and I'd be like, I’d believe all this stuff about me just because it was written by like, medical professionals. So I started looking at schizophrenia in terms of like, shamanism and stuff like that, and they have like a whole different way of viewing it and managing it. 

But to bring it back to the topic, I think like, this project is super important to me, just because it is and has been like a narrative throughout my life, and like throughout my family, and just the community. And I think Allison's work is powerful because she's talking about mental illness, but the materiality of her work is soft. It's not like hard or like chemical, like paint. And I think it's very beautiful, and I'm very excited to work with her and be a part of this project. Thank you. 

Zoë: Awesome, thank you, Madi. 

So just jumping on what Madi and Clorinda kind of just talked about, I'm going to switch down to a different kind of question that I had more towards the end, but I feel like it's topical right now. So this is a question to all of you: Allison, Clorinda, Madi, anyone else that wants to jump in. But what are some of the things you would love to see shift, or change, or disappear, or be added to in the art world - or in our society as a whole - to make it more accessible, inviting, a place to thrive - versus a place that’s like, quite repressive? 

And whoever wants to go first, maybe Allison.

Allison: I'll start just so that we can get going. I have some things written down, so it's easier for me to go.

But one of the main things that I look for now in my life, in my work, in my art practice is flexibility. I feel crappy a lot of the time, and I don't always know when I'm going to feel crappy and for how long. And so it's hard, it's hard to do that. 

One of the things I talked a little bit about, is that as an artist, it's always that hustle, right? You always have to hustle. Art systems kind of reinforce that by, you know, "Here's our deadlines. Here's our things. Get all your stuff together", you know? “And if it's not done, you can't submit,” kind of thing. So like, the fact that I'm here talking about a project that one, is like a three year - it was supposed to be a one year, maybe a half year project, it's like a three year project now - but that, like, is not even close to done, is cool. It's cool to be able to talk about things that aren't where they are going to end up. It's cool to be able to say, “I'm going to show up in my pajamas today because, you know, that's the best I can do and I'm here,” and that's great. And that's good enough, right? So. 

And more accessibility as well for people with different needs. Again, as far - (video stalls and audio stutters).

There's so many art fans and patrons that aren't accessing art, and the art system, and the art world because they're there, you know, gate kept out. So.

Zoë: You cut out a little bit there but I think I got the gist of it, where so much of the art world is really inaccessible to so many different people. And I think, maybe just guessing, I think sometimes when we approach accessibility, it's a very limited, you know, one size fits all. And it's not considering that people are individuals and people have individual needs, and it's still trying to make it very, you know, bureaucratic and simplified and, you know, easier on the people who are administering programming.

And Richard, I'll get you in just one second, but I'm kind of on a roll here. 

But also like thinking about how, especially with this project, Allison, you talked about how you really had to kind of break out of your comfort zone and make some sacrifices on your end in order to work- to make the project what it needs to be for your collaborators. And I think that that models what all of us can do, and that's something that I've taken in and started to consider within my job and my practice as an art maker. And yeah, it's just something that's really jumped out at me about this project that I think tied in with what you were saying.

Richard, let's go to you. You have your hand up.

Richard: Yeah, I just wanted to give a thumbs up to this, this- everything I've heard so far. And I think one thing we can continue to do is make sure that people who are struggling with mental illness feel that it's safe to talk about it. 

And I love cross-stitch, so. But I'm- you know, we need communities, we need to link people through communities of safety, and we need to empower each other. So I'm experiencing that quite a bit, and I'm getting to know Allison through another project, so I'm, I’m very excited about that. Okay, thank you. 

Zoë: Thank you, Richard. 

Clorinda, did you have anything you wanted to add to that question?

Clorinda: Yeah, I think that Allison has inspired me to be able to just sit back and like, you know - I'm fat, and I'm tired, and sometimes I'm depressed, and sometimes I really just don't feel like doing it, you know? And I don't have to force myself to do it - like, I don't. And you know, it's a gift. And it really is, right? 

I mean, one foot in front of the other, like, there's something to be said for that. But there's also something to be said about having a marginalized body and a marginalized mental illness, as well as the other physical chronic illnesses that I have, to be able to just… feel like it's all a part of me, and not like there's this one part of me that's all damaged, hiding, and afraid, and I can’t share to the world because it makes me look weak and less than. And then within this process, I've been merging the two, and it's just my entire being of who I am. And it's wonderful, right? I can feel more whole.

Zoë: (Affirmative hum) Yeah.

And I think, Allison, when we had talked private- like earlier, before I started the writing process - you kind of talked about the inside outside box, or the inside outside method of art therapy, because you're also an art therapist. And I think that really speaks to the project itself, which is like the duality of sides. And then like the, you know, the shame, or the just the kind of- oh, I can't think of the word right now. My brain's a little loopy right now. But just the way that we're taught to hide anything that's non-normative. And I think that you really speak to that in that project, and it's nice to hear Clorinda sort of reinforcing that in your experience of it as well.

Madi, are you interested in talking about anything that you would love to see shift, change, disappear, added to the world - art world or society at large - that would make life, you know, more easy and doable for you?

Madi: Yes.

I think like, fibre arts definitely needs to be at the forefront of the art world, just because like- Not all fibre arts you can touch, but I think this idea of like, being able to touch the art breaks down, like, elitism. Because like when I go to the art gallery, it's kind of like-  sometimes there are like, little barriers. Like, “Don't get too close, don't touch it.” And I feel like when people feel like they can touch beautiful things, that can be like, healing. I think that even like, goes into like, kind of like scarcity and capitalism. Because like a lot- lots of times people buy like, beautiful things - like a beautiful purse or like a beautiful object - and it just like, gets tucked away in the closet. They don't want to lose it. They don't want to get stolen. And I feel like it's the same thing with art. Like art really needs to be in the community. Like really great art, and art you can touch, and art you can, you know, art you can walk up to you and make art on, even though it's like someone else made it. 

And I think like Allison's work with like interactability like, she's involving the community, she's  getting us to like, talk about our narrative. It's like bringing that story back into the art where like, people can understand what it's about, and really bringing it down to like, “This is something like we can all talk about, and it's like a safe place to talk about it.” And I think too, just like- I don't know, I lost my train of thought. I guess that's it. 

Zoë: That's awesome, thank you. And I totally agree. 

When I was starting to write questions about this, I just kept going back to scarcity and capitalism and how it just innately sets up people to be products or to be, you know, parts 

of a machine. Everything is viewed as like a part of something that can be turned into a product. And when we have chronic illness, or disability, or mental health, or anything that pushes back against that, it really starts to like, shut down those ideas of capitalism. And I think that's where so much of the oppression of people who are like that comes from. But yeah, thank you, you like, really brought that to the forefront and I appreciate it.

Allison, you have your hand up. 

Allison: Yeah, I do. I can lower it now. 

So, yeah, that just made me think: one of the more recent additions to the port- the self-portrait that is featured in this, this digital exhibition of myself that I added right before it went up is the duct tape background on the reverse side. And I actually put it sticky side out, so that as it lives and goes around and gets shown and gets touched and gets -  it just exists in my house - it collects gunk, because that's how I feel.

Zoë: (affirmative hum)

Allison: And yeah, the idea that again, that maybe- Maybe it doesn't have to be this archival, beautiful thing that will last forever. (Video buffers and audio stutters)

Zoë: Hmm. Allison, you're kind of shorting out again a little bit. 

Allison: (audio suddenly cuts back in) whatever - Oh! 

Zoë: There we go. 

Allison: Sorry, my internet.

Zoë: Oh no!

Allison: Yeah, it's my internet connection. It keeps telling me it's stable now, but can you hear me now?

Zoë: Yes, we can hear you now.

Allison: OK. Well, anyway, I was just thinking that again, creating art-  

Again, this whole process is about the process, and less about the finished products, and less about, “Can I make art that's going to sell?” I never have been very good at that, so I'm not very good at considering that either. But like, let's do this- Like my intentions are to like, “Let's use whatever materials and interactive components and whatever we want to use to best get across how you experience things.” Because that's all I care about is- sorry, sorry, everyone else - the collaborators and whether they feel like this is an authentic representation and experience for them. 

And one of the things - I just want to be cognizant of time and things (feigned worried yell) like I get scared. One of the things I really wanted to make sure I mentioned that ties right into what Madi was saying about capitalism and all of the stuff - my answer to everything is capitalism! - is that right now, rest is a privilege. And that should never be the way it is. We shouldn't have to work for the right to rest. We shouldn't have to, you know- It shouldn't be only the people that can afford to rest are able to. And I'm well aware of the fact that I'm able to rest because I have- I'm lucky enough to have multiple people in my life who will take care of me when I need to rest, and not everybody has that. Many people don't have that. And so instead of just like, relying on, “Oh, it's your family or your spouse's job to take care of you,” we all need to take care of each other, and that needs to be embedded in everything we do: our work, our, you know, our relationships, our friendships - they’re relationships too, sorry. But all of that stuff! And yeah, I just want to really rethink things. And I will stress that I - this process has not been perfect. I'm making mistakes all over the place. And again, that's fine, as long as we're trying to be mindful of it and trying to address it. So again, as I go along there's things where I'm like, “Oh, I should have considered this,” and I'm going back and changing things in the process. So anyway, sorry. 

Zoë: Yeah, I think, yeah, just to like -

As a brief aside again, as I was going through this and like, “Oh, capitalism!”, my thought was like, “We just need a UBI, and maybe I should direct my efforts to like, working on that.” And you know, that would solve some of the problem. It would go towards starting to, like, make that privilege less of a thing and more of an accessibility for everybody just to be able to like, live and have that. But anyway, that's a total aside.

But I wanted to talk now about, you know, the pandemic and specifically how it's been affecting folks who are chronically ill. You have a very unique perspective, and I think that I would really love to hear about how- What you've noticed throughout this time, that's positive, negative, neutral, that maybe others wouldn't be aware of. Have things changed? Can you speak to your experiences throughout the pandemic? And that can be as- just like living your life as an artist in your career, or whatever you want to talk about. But yeah, I'm really curious to hear about what your perspective throughout this pandemic has been. Under the lens of chronic illness.

Allison: That’s directed to me, sorry I missed it. 

Yeah. So, one of the things that's been mostly apparent to me throughout this, this new pandemic life is that there are ways to make things more accessible. And like, I knew there was. But people didn't want to do them, because it takes a little bit of extra effort and work. And now that everybody needs them, suddenly, you know, virtual conferences are possible. Like throughout the pandemic, I've heard so, so, so, so many people complain about how they can't wait to get back in person, and they can't like- And it's fine, I get it. Everybody like, we miss each other! But there have been so many benefits to this - “this” not to the pandemic, sorry,  don't take me wrong in that way, but to the accessibility. Especially like- leaving my house is hard right now. And the fact that I can leave or not leave and make money or do work and make art and share and talk to people is important. 

And I worry that when this is done - I don't think there is going to be a “that day” - but that people are again- People are already trying to shift back to in-person and get rid of the virtual, and it's like, “Why can't we build all of this in to be an option for the people who need it?” So yeah, that's my main thing, is that over the last couple of years, it's like… I know we can do this. I know we can. And it's only when push comes to shove and we- and you make people, or they have to, they don't have a choice, they will change. So I think we can try harder to do it before that point.

Zoë: Yeah, yeah, I agree. 

And I think like, just speaking from my own experience, I have intense social anxiety and doing events like this in the past have always been rough for like weeks leading up to it. Day of is just, you know, not… it's not good. And this option to have it virtually has completely changed how I've been able to connect with other people. I've done more events like this in the past two years than I ever did before, and I'm so much more comfortable being in my space and being able to do them. You know, my animals are here and it's just completely different. And I think- like I'm pretty afraid of when things go back to normal and these sort of things stop happening and then I'm, you know, not doing this stuff again. It feels like… And I know I'm just, you know, I'm one person that- There's so many people that don't have access to this going back, and I see people pretending that it's already over. And, “Let's just have an in-person party with, you know, 100 people and it's totally fine!” And, “Oh, it's not that bad!” And I know one thing that I keep coming back to - and I apologize if this is a trigger for anyone - but the pre- oh my god, I can't think of the term right now. It just left me. But just like having a precondition and then you suddenly not mattering if you get COVID, like there's just… Can someone help me out with the term? 

Allison: Pre-existing.

Zoë: Pre-existing condition. Thank you so much, Allison. 

Yeah and it's just every time I see that come up, I'm so disgusted and it kind of reinforces how ableist our society is towards so many people that we're just willing to, you know, just ignore the fact that people are at more of a risk to get sick and they shouldn't matter because they have, you know, a chronic illness or something. So yeah, I apologize if that's like, really triggering for anyone. But it's one thing, but I've just really been disturbed by throughout the entire pandemic, and I hope that enough people can talk about it and notice it, that we can push back against it. But you know, it felt really important to bring up. 

Does anyone else have any experiences that they want to share or touch on? And this can be to anyone to- yeah, Clorinda! 

Clorinda:  In my line of work, I think that I've noticed there were definitely some positive things about the pandemic. I definitely got better choices of psychologists because I didn't have to go in St. Paul and I wasn’t restricted to just like, the three that are there. So I- So mental health wise, as far as therapy, it was better. But you know, it really did increase. Like I was a germaphobe before the pandemic. So, you know, going through it, in one way it was like, “Oh my God”, I just didn't want to touch anything. You know, it was worse than before. But then on the other hand, I was like, “Okay people are washing their hands, more people are sanitizing more.” But then it brought like what comes with like the anxiety and the depression is like, “Well, you know, what are the chemicals doing to my body that everybody's cleaning with?” Then you're like overthinking all this other stuff, right? 

But then, you know, in my line of work, I do trauma therapy with indigenous families and the virtual part of it, as good as it was for me, for my own clients and participants it was sometimes an unsafe or even unattainable way to receive my services. And we never - in my company - we didn't really ever shut down, I was in the office. I think I worked remotely for like a month out of the whole thing. So, you know, there are all these challenges in trying to add all this pressure to help people, you know, that couldn't really talk to me then I was going through all of my own things. 

But another positive thing about the pandemic, when all my trips to the emergency room, there was a lot less people in there, so that made me feel better. But it also made me question the validity of some of the measures that are being taken because I was literally sitting on one side of a five foot plastic screen and the COVID patients were on the other side, you know, thinking to myself, “Geez.”

So I think that there's pros- there's pros and cons to the whole thing, and it's all - for myself - a matter of just trying to get through every day and just what's best for me, and allowing myself - I'm going to say “being selfish” because that, you know, in society and in my family growing up the way that I did, that's kind of what it is. When you're thinking what yourself, you're being selfish. I'm trying to change that narrative with myself that's taking care of myself. So. 

Zoë: Thank you. Yeah, that's really helpful, and good to hear as well, yeah. 

I think one thing I'm noticing, like, just thinking about this “selfishness”- You are like, helping your community by helping yourself. That's always like the most important part of being able to be in community is that you're also well enough to have to contribute to each other's, you know, connections and whatnot. I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense or is the proper phrasing.

But yeah, did anyone else want to touch on that, specifically the pandemic? Madi? 

Madi: Yes.

So I think on your point, just like being like, you need to be able to help others, I think that's super important. I think if there are better supports in place for like, everybody like we’d able to be healthier, and then the community would be healthier. 

Through the pandemic there's definitely been pros and cons. Starting with the cons like, during the pandemic, the bus system became like… it just felt like it was more dangerous to take. There was just more fights breaking out and violence. And just like riding transit, like I just feel like I have to like-  let’s say I had a job interview or like I had to get somewhere. And then not only is it, like, super stressful for me to get everything together and be on time and not like - I don't know, like make it on time, make the bus on time - it's also like going for the commute and then having like, I don't know, comments made or like feeling unsafe, and I feel like that can feel pretty exhausting.

So through the pandemic, I really like… Also, because of the pandemic, but like I wasn't leaving to see friends and my mom didn't want to like-  my mom was isolating for me most of the time, so I spent a lot of time alone. I think this is good in that I started practicing meditation, so that was good. I was able to just like, observe myself and kind of like, observe what was happening around me just because usually when something stressful would happen I'd kind of react like, “Oh, I'm leaving,” or, “I'm going to do this,” or, “I'm going to hang out with a friend.” And I didn't have those outlets to kind of just like, avoid. I really had to like, sit with myself and kind of be with myself.

So I think like, the question… Yeah, the pros and cons in the pandemic. I think also like, the pros: I had to see a psychiatrist every month, I was underneath a treatment order, so I legally had to go, so I had to bus downtown once a month. And then on top of that, I had to see nurses and doctors appointments. So for the first time ever, I could just have my appointment over a phone call. And this was like super awesome. And I felt like having these supports in place that I could do therapy or like my psychiatrist appointments over the phone meant that I had more time to like, work on myself or like, work on my resume, or do things. Because I feel like when you are low income and you're trying to access supports, it can take a lot of energy out of your time and your life to actually work on being better just because, like there's so many interruptions in the day. So that was super awesome. 

I got to do my first semester of university online. I didn't graduate high school, and that was in part because I had trouble with time management and like getting to class on time, among other things. But like for- I attended like, pretty much all my university classes, and it was just so awesome that even if I was like, you know, I was like working on something I just like, click in and I'm like, there. And I think that being online got me through like, my first three classes of university. This semester, it being back in person, it was awesome to see the studios and stuff like that. I didn't continue at the U of A. And I think there's pros and cons, like, I think some things would be nice, if it's like, theory and stuff just to be online. But yeah, just like- I don't know how to wrap this back around to the closing point, but those are my points. 

Zoë: Yeah!

Allison: Awesome. That's awesome. 

Zoë: I agree. And I think like- Like my partner teaches some classes at the university and has been doing it online, and there's kids that are, there was a kid - I shouldn't say kid, I always do, that’s not good. There was a student who was able to attend classes from India before coming, and like rural Saskatchewan students were able to attend and like, these are people who just wouldn't have access before.

And you know, I struggle to go to things. And so, you know, it is making learning and just being connected to community in a different way much, much more accessible. I really do hope a hybrid model is able to stay, and I know I'll like, push for that in any way that I can, and I can do that in my job. I can really advocate for that.

I wanted to circle back. When I was talking before about like being well enough to help your community, I really want to stress that, like, I think marginalized communities like… we help each other so much because we see how shitty it can be, and sometimes to the detriment of our own health. That's all I was kind of referring to. I didn't want it to be like, “Bootstrap yourself up so that you can help everyone else!” or anything like that. More so just like when you see how bad it is, it's really hard to just put yourself first.

But I think that we also experience burnout in a huge way, and Allison talked a lot about that. And I mean, I have like so many damn privileges piled on top of each other, so I can barely even speak to this experience that other people have. But yeah, I think like, the burnout is so real and everyone I talk to you right now is just like, really down, like tired. 

And yeah, and Allison, I know that just writing this and reading what you've written, looking at what you're doing, talking with you has given me permission to myself to just relax a little bit. That’s been so important. It's felt so good to say no to some things. Look, normally I would be like, “Yeah I’ll fit it in, I'll make it happen!” So thank you for that. Like, I know I'm not necessarily your intended audience for things, but I really appreciate that. And I think that it shows how much your project is for everyone and can help everyone. And I really appreciate that.

Allison, did you want to jump in and say?

Allison: I was just going to say thank you, that's great!

And it should be for like- Yes, this is for chronically ill folks. But there are… If we treat everybody as chronically ill folks that need to be treated, or as the people want to be treated, then everybody benefits, right?

Zoë: Exactly. 

Allison: Sorry, Madi.

Zoë: Madi, you’re hand’s up, yeah? 

Madi: I wanted to touch on those points about the students at the U of A that could now attend. It just made me think of glitch feminism and that like… I feel like the pandemic has like, accelerated accelerationism and glitch feminism, and just this idea that, like the internet, provides freedom and like access to spaces, and people who are like ourselves are just like a feeling of like sharedness.

And then I also, I think I want to say that like- Yeah. Yeah, just like glitch feminism. 

Zoë: Thank you. I'm a- I'm not actually familiar with that term, so I'm totally going to research it afterwards. Thank you.

Allison: Me neither! So I'm going to go look that up because it sounds so cool.

Zoë: Um, OK. So we’re at 6:48. Does anyone- Should we open it up to questions? So I guess we've just…

Hannah: Yeah, we can. We can, you know, we can open it up to questions, unless you had anything else specific you wanted to touch on.

Zoë: I think we went all over the place and had some really good things.

Hannah: Yeah, I think so. 

Zoë: (affirmative hum) Yeah. So questions from anyone. Or statements or just, you know, adding to the convo, I think is totally open now. 

OK, I have a question. I have a question. 

Oh, thank you! Thank you so much. OK, thank you. Thanks, Michel. 

OK, so I have a question for Hannah, actually. I want to know how your experience as being like the digital… digital... Can you remind me what your position title is? 

Hannah: Digital Program Coordinator.

Zoë: Thank you. Can you speak to your experience of doing digital programming throughout this time? And have you noticed that there's a change in who is able to attend or how programming is received for Latitude 53?

Hannah: Yeah, I mean, I haven't- I only just started this position in August, so I'm still pretty new! This is only my second Art From Here. But no, no, no. I do have thoughts. 

I think - Even in my experience attending digital events like this, like artist talks and stuff, I found that sometimes I would also have a hard time just going out to things. Like, I'd want to support an artist that I loved or a friend, but sometimes you just like, can't make it to those types of events.

So I found that just like artist talks and studio visits online is my favorite thing ever. I just love being able to just watch it on my phone or like, make dinner and watch an artist talk. It's so much more, I don't know… it's so much more informal. And I think that's what I've kind of seen, and that's what my focus kind of is with Art From Here stuff. I just really like to stress to the artists that this isn't a formal artist talk, like it's a conversation. I want to kind of create the space for dialogue.

Yeah so I think I've had a good, good reactions to the Art From Here talks. And yeah, now that- And I find that most people actually watch them after the fact, which is kind of cool. Like if you can't make it - because it is still at a set time, so if you can't make that then…  I think having-  Like going back to flexibility like we were talking about, I think it's so nice to have like, a talk online, and then you can listen to it as a podcast after if that's your preferred kind of method of ingesting this content.

Zoë: Yeah, yeah, that was super fascinating to me as well. I'm really interested. Like I listen to podcasts all day long, kind of constantly. And so, yeah, I love that you also do that as well. That's something I want to kind of incorporate into what I do in my job as well, now. I just like it. 

Allison, do you feel like there's anything that, either in the writing or in the talk tonight, that I might have missed or that we might have missed that you really love to, like, hit home or share with your audience? DO you feel like we’ve-

Allison: No again, I think we've covered the bases. Like this is an exciting project, and so like, I really put a lot into the process and making sure that we're trying to do this authentically - and that word is what I have kind of grasped on to lately for myself as well. So is that like- We need to be able to show up more authentically in so many ways, to all sorts of places. And so like this project, I want to give space for us - the people who are participating, the chronically ill folks - to really kind of sit with our own feelings, our shared identities, our shared experiences and different experiences. Because again, like, that's what makes things go. 

But it's also so much about making that space to show up as you are. So that, like Clorinda had said earlier, sometimes you feel like crap. And like I told somebody earlier, Richard, in my meeting that I was like, I'm just going to show up and be like, “I feel like crap.” And it's true, I do. And I often feel like I have to perform being a appropriate, you know, middle, almost-middle-aged human being where I have to, you know - There's rules and all of these things, and I should show up and, you know, wear clothes that aren't pajamas, and brush my hair, and do my makeup, and not interrupt people, and talk about all of these things and all of this. But when we do that, we kind of lose the essence of people. 

So I'm not saying that we should all just talk over everyone all the time, but like, we should be mindful of that. But like, I'm so thrilled that Madi's here making dinner and like, that people are here just with their screens off and listening, that Richard showed up after our meeting this afternoon. I just want… Usually I make a giant deal out of events like this, and I want it to feel less like a giant deal. Like this is… If I don't do it right, if I don't show up with my professional artist's face on that, you know, everybody's going to think I'm a loser and never talk about my art again or anything like that. That's not that's not how it is! And let's make space to show up as we are and normalize that so that again, like it's not weird, necessarily, to have somebody making dinner while they're in a meeting or leaving and coming back or, you know, I turn my camera off a lot because sometimes I have to lay my head down on the table and people think that's really rude. So like, you know, let- (Video freezes, audio stops).

(Video resumes, audio cuts back in) -the project's about, and I'm hoping to like… I'm hoping we'll finish it! We've got an exhibition booked for 2023, which is great. So I've got to finish it. But ah, but yeah, I just… just the whole process. We're going to make it, and we're going to make it hopefully as painless as we can.

Zoë: Well, I just yeah, I think we're- I think that's lovely, a lovely sentiment to end on and we're close to the end and I’ll let Hannah do the final wrap up. But I just really want to express gratitude to everyone who came out tonight and shared their stories. Allison, this project, the way you set up this project, is such an inspiration on how to aim to do things in a way that's reciprocal and material benefit- materially beneficial. Oh my gosh. Words are so hard for me today! I'm also having a really crappy physically and mentally, so-

Allison: You’re doing great.

Zoë: Thank you.

But anyway, I really appreciate how you set up this project to really benefit everyone materially and everybody's ideas and everybody's creativity and their stories and what they bring to the table. You really set this up in a way that's just so built on care. And like, I really emphasize that, and I thank you for that and I think you're doing really good work. 

And with that, I'll turn it over to Hannah to kind of like, finish it off.

Hannah: Thank you. Yeah, I just have - We're like, perfect timing, honestly. It's like almost exactly seven. Or eight o’clock in Saskatchewan. 

So I just want to say a really, really big thank you to Allison and Zoë, as well as Clorinda and Madi for joining us tonight and for sharing with us. That was really, really nice, and I'm very happy. And just also a quick thank you to Latitude 53, and the Mitchell Art Gallery, and Ociciwan, and SNAP for creating this project.

And a quick reminder to check out Allison's work and Zoë's writing up on the Art From Here website if you haven't already. And then this talk- Another reminder this will be available. We'll have the video available and we'll have the podcast available. Hopefully, usually like the next day, so that'll probably be up… I'll get that up tomorrow. 

Yeah, I think that's everything, if no one has any further questions. Lots of thank you's in the chat right now. Then I think we'll close it out for tonight. So thank you so much, everybody for joining us as well.

Zoë: Thank you all! 

Hannah: Goodnight everybody. 

Allison: Have a good night. Take care and rest! Have a restful winter holiday. 

Hannah: Yeah, happy holidays! Bye!